An Alt-E SUV Named Desire

For reasons still unknown, CFN remains effectively shut down, with no new comments displaying in the current thread. Was looking forward to more exchanges with Ryan. In honor of Ryan and his obsession with hopes for this, that, and the other thing (including the dieoff-with-dignity wish) I can’t help but do something like the title of this post.

Hope is a wonderful thing to have, and probably a necessary thing to have too if you’re otherwise convinced we’re about to swirl around the big porcelain bowl o’ life. Where this hope is put (invested) is otherwise a very good question. Hope is not entirely dissimilar to investment funds in certain regards. Much is said about hope these days on the blogs and on the internets. ‘Hope’ has been a magical word in this past election cycle.

Some have pinned much hope on the Prince of Change, shortly due to be installed in Washingtoon, DC, thus putting an end to Bush’s long reign of error.

Some have invested their hope on a revitalized product lineup by GM, even as GM falls apart from the sheer weight of its own compounded & layered stupidity. Why, GM has had to cut back so much that they’ve ceased the construction of the whole new plant that was supposed to build those tiny gasoline engines for the Volt. No doubt the millions needed to keep that project alive were better spent on executive compensation & bonuses last year for Rick Wagoner and whatever other smarmy golf buddies of his there pull down those million-dollar-plus packages. (and why the F is a whole new facility needed to make another component? am sure they could contract out with Honda or Toyota for that part.)

Economists everywhere are expressing hope, not covertly enough IMCFNHO, when they predict a certain month in 2009 or 2010 for the economic turnaround they’re expecting to see. Like the date of the RE-market recovery and the date by which fusion power will be available, this recovery date keeps getting shifted forward. (Someone on the HBB showed this quite clearly.) Naturally, none of these tea-leaf-readers (err, economists) can explain what preconditions will cause all of the current trends to do an abrupt about-face, thus restoring the full glory of wild credit expansion and the concomitant consumer spending boom. All they’re thinking is something like, “Hmm, these downward things never continue forever, so eventually this one will turn around too.” That they cannot explain anything about how it will come about tells you that they can’t even begin to guess the ‘when’ part with any accuracy .. and that’s stretching the definition of ‘guess’, mind you. some of the electric energy consumed in our consumerist energy-hogging paradise. These tidal, geothermal, solar, wind, hydrogen initiatives are possible only through the current energy bounty of fossil fuels .. and without the complex energy-intensive industrial arcology necessary to provide these things and their components, prepare the sites, cast the concrete, move the stuff, set things up, etc, these things cannot happen. (how much concrete has been poured by solar or wind energy? how much nitrate fertilizer has been generated by alternative energy?)

No doubt somewhere in North Dakota there is a cabal of resolute Cheney/Bush fans who hope for a resurgence of the ‘traditional American values’ that brought Darth Cheney and his figureheaded monkey mascot to power. They probably feel that all of Cheney’s good works got turned around and ruined by the other party, and that if his PNAC directives had been executed without any Demo-interference, why, we’d all be living in some sort of Republic-of-Gilead biblical afterlife right hear on earth. Bible verse tests to be part of basic citizenship requirements and driving tests, of course.

Some of the can’t-contemplate-doom’ers have placed much hope in very-low-intensity Alt-E measures that could, at great financial/material/energy expense per installed kW, replace

Then there are the people who cannot afford their post-reset adjustable-rate mortgages, yet are nonetheless hoping not to lose their homes despite not being able to afford them at bubble prices.
Then there are the millions hoping to get their jobs back, or their full wages restored, even though
the income they formerly depended on was derived from economic circumstances the likes of which do not exist outside the upswing phase of an unsustainable credit bubble, and will not exist again anytime soon.

There is the matter of investors scouring the world looking for some safe haven where they can dump their money and not think about it or even lift a finger while it magically multiplies madly like one of those Madoff investments. (and here’s a pronunciation key for the updated version of Ambrose Bierce’s dictionary: “Madoff”, as in, “He’s made off with your money”)

Like a game of musical chairs with half the chairs disappearing during one particular song, there is way too much loose hope to be accommodated by the current set of emerging realities. Like all things subject to supply/demand considerations, this has the static effect of making hope cheap and making good outcomes more expensive. This is the essential nature of the bottleneck: our future choices are becoming less prolific and more grim as events progress. It’s going to take way more than a wheelbarrow full of “hope coupons” to afford any of the nicer outcomes headed our way.

Despite busting on them so obviously on the other blog (at least, before it stopped working, thanks Typokey!) I am rather intrigued by the way the Dales and the Ryans of the world cling to the notion that with massive and immediate investments in Alt-Energy technologies we need not suffer a speedy contraction of population and the suffering that will accompany it. Why, if the whole world would gear up to produce solar cells and wind turbines and water turbines like mad, perhaps in the far future there may be the occasional family dwelling with minuscule amounts of electric energy available for its use, provided that someone with the correct technical knowledge is available to maintain it.

Another fine example is that in spite the massive investments in hope (as well as the venture capital funding that seemed so certain as of May 2008) all of the planned “alternative oil ventures” like the Brazilian deepwater stuff, the Arctic deepwater stuff, the Wyoming shale oil extraction, the coal-to-liquid plants that Patrick assured us were just around the corner, etc, have been de-funded or are about to be. That’s it, folks, in a nutshell: without continuously-escalating oil prices to generate the correct funds from the futures market, it is not economically feasible to do these high-entropy low-EROEI oil alternatives. (does that sound familiar .. sort of like the way ever-rising house prices let everyone “share the wealth”? can you say “bubble”?)

Hope is a precious thing alright, but just like with painstakingly-earned investment money, it’s important to invest it in things that won’t go kablooey later in the game. And personally, I think we’d be very lucky just to land at the level of the Amish Paradise.

Take it away, Al ..

This entry was posted by nudged.

82 thoughts on “An Alt-E SUV Named Desire

  1. As ever, the zombie trolls can’t get their head around critical mass Nudge. Like we all said before, how many solar panel factories are powered by solar panels?

  2. Apologies for the font problem, SB. (and where are those hawt biker pics?) Probably caused by my mistake of using smaller font (instead of zoomed-smaller window) while composing .. that 12pt font at 100% made me want to look at it from 20 feet away.

    UY, the narcissistic cornucopian zombie trolls feel that energy is energy, regardless of form, and that because we’ve “got technology” we can somehow transform it from whatever it is to whatever we actually need right then. Doom has tried many times to ask them how much concrete has been mixed, transported, and poured using alternate energies.

    There are no solar cell plants anywhere that are run entire by solar power. Were such an operation to be truly self-powered, said alt-E stuff would also have to power the resource streams for the plants, the workers and their food/transportation, and so on. Even worse, if you leave sustainability aside and focus simply on commandeering the existing PV cell makers all over the entire world, it would take roughly 500 continuous years of production (at 2007 levels) for the whole world to make enough solar cells to meet just the UPL’s present electrical power needs.

    The same holds true for wind turbines and other alt-e ventures. The resource streams for these are quite complex, especially if you try to set up the system that includes giant windmills for every McMansion, compressors & electrolytic gear to make hydrogen and compress it, and vehicles set up with fuel cells or high-pressure tanks to use the hydrogen. At that point, it costs in the realm of several million dollars per household, and the finicky technology required to run that stuff is high-maintenance and not capable of being manufactured by self-powered processes.

    Uncle Yarra, I have reluctantly concluded that the Alt-E cornucopian zombies are simply unable to face the fact that things are going to change for us, and drastically, and that these changes will not all have nice round Disney endings. They wear their emotional failing like a badge of ignorance, hoping it will shield them from “undignified” things happening to them later in the long emergency.

  3. But it’s all those Disney and Warner Bros cartoons where bootstrapping is possible!

    Cue C.A.E.Z.T.
    Daffy Duck lifts himself up by his suspenders.

    Cue reality,
    Wiley Coyote looking up as he is engulfed by a rather large and rapidly growing shadow….

  4. “I am rather intrigued by the way the Dales and the Ryans of the world cling to the notion that …. we need not suffer a speedy contraction of population and the suffering that will accompany it.”

    “Paging Dr. Bartlett…
    Cornucopian zombie troll in ward Z requiring transfer from column A to column B…”

  5. Didn’t Ryan keep posting a blog address for the first week or two of his shenanigans on CFN? Something like “a lifeboat called hope”?

    Poor Ryan. Hope is great stuff alight, but unless there’s some practical reality to translate it to when the time comes, it’s as useless in that moment as Reischmarks are today for buying groceries in the UPL.

    Someone on another blog worked out the numbers required to get the human population of the world down to its sustainable level (last seen approx c.e. 1850) .. and the number they came up with was 200 million total. That means that out of every hundred people you know, 97 of them wouldn’t make it, and there’s no guarantee you’d be one of the lucky survivors.

    Dr. Bartlett’s video was great .. I practically threw up when he applied that “what time is it?” question to the matter of the bacteria filling up their bottle and then discovering three whole new bottles. Oh yes, when something is increasing exponentially within a finite environment, the saturation level vs doubling time tells you how much time you’ve got before things go kablooey.

    True Alt-E cornucopians like to point to Cuba as an example of a modern technological nation that survived its own PO and kept right on trucking. But Cuba is an isolated success story in a sea of failures. The counter-examples are to be found among the many nations (mostly African or other third world places) that essentially dropped off the grid 2006-2008 due to the escalating prices of oil. It’s very instructive to see what happened in those places. Did the loss of affordable oil convince them to get into solar cell production, wind turbine production, water turbine production, etc? It did not. In fact, the loss of oil left those nations without the industrial means to get into those various Alt-E ventures.

    Note that phrase “without the industrial means to ..” ~ this is key to understanding why some well-intentioned scientist cannot go into the woods, armed with just a Swiss Army knife, and make solar cells or wind turbines from common ingredients lying about the forest. All of those things require whole industries just to make the components or the purified ingredients or the needed tools & equipment to produce stuff like that.

  6. Somebody please tell me why I’m wasting time with Ryan instead of forcibly adding him to my soylent-green harvest quota for the month. Too much stupid free-range protein wandering around on two legs these days if you ask me.

  7. We could always mindfuck with him and keep viewing his profile. Imagine if it jumped up to 10,000 from 110 views but still with no comments on his blog?
    (christmas anti-spirit)

  8. Nudge. Here’s some fresh fuel for our hopes.

    Deep-Water Wind Farm Plans Inspire Hopes, Outcries
    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/6174812.html

    “Waters off the Northeast coast are called by some the Saudi Arabia of wind for their potential in providing massive amounts of energy to the region.”

    “…the race is on to build the world’s first deep-water wind farms, ones that would operate on floating platforms in waters hundreds of feet deep, like oil rigs found in the North Sea and the Gulf of Mexico.”

    “…there are gargantuan technical hurdles, but there is also the potential for a huge payoff…”

    “I think it’s important when we think about this that we keep in mind this is a long-term perspective,” Johannessen said. “We’re talking about 10 years-plus, or 20 years maybe, before the technology is available on commercial terms.”

    ###

    “Gargantuan” hurdles is probably a pretty good way to describe this. Uhh, I gotta wait 10 or 20 years!!??

    A big offshore wind turbine, including its tower structure, weighs a couple hundred tons at least. An immense flotilla of wind platforms, enough to make a substantial contribution to northeastern power needs, would be extraordinary. Nudge, to your point, the steel going into a futuristic mega project like this, the yard fabrication, the manufacturing, the heavy lift ships, cranes, service vessels, steak dinners, submarine cables and other infrastructure, would obviously have to require huge fossil fuel inputs. The marine environment is so harsh. There would have to be an awful lot of ongoing maintenance, upkeep and replacement…. Oil oil oil.

    No matter what, it looks like we’re going to bet the farm on achieving grand-scale solutions that will run up against problems of complexity and scale, shortfalls of capital, and uncertain supply of fuel and raw materials. These grand expectations will die hard. Eventually, “hopes” will come down to earth and become more modest I guess. But first!!…. we need to capture ALL of the Niagara River discharge and run it through hydroelectric turbines. Right now we’re only using about half of what would go over the falls. Oh all those glorious megawatts there for the taking!

  9. Have you guys ever seen the film “What a Way to Go:Life at the End of Empire”? It is on youtube now. I recommend watching it.

    blurb:”A middle class white guy comes to grips with Peak Oil, Climate
    Change, Mass Extinction, Population Overshoot and the demise of the
    American Lifestyle.

    Featuring interviews with Daniel Quinn, Derrick Jensen, Jerry Mander, Chellis Glendinning, Richard Heinberg, Thomas Berry, William Catton, Ran Prieur and Richard Manning.”

  10. Clusterfucking, across the universe, Clusterfucking, and it’s only getting worse:

    Hawaii Chevrolet dealer crushes auto competition

    HILO, Hawaii – A Hilo Chevrolet dealer who tried to crush his Asian auto competition found the stunt a little harder to pull off than expected.

    Island Chevrolet general sales manager James Severtson arranged for a Chevrolet Suburban SUV outfitted with massive tires costing $5,000 apiece to drive over a Honda Accord.

    On the first attempt Friday, the monster truck blew a hydraulic hose and leaked vital fluid while the Honda remained intact and ready for more.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/odd_crushing_cars

  11. Nudge

    Good post about needing a sound basis for hope. I think Ryan means well but I can’t honestly see the future he predicts, particularly for Britain as there are far too many people there. Why does he think Oz and NZ were settled? NZ was the ideal meat factory, as one thing that grows here well is grass and with the advent of refrigerated shipping in the 1880s, if memory serves, Britons could indulge their taste for beef and lamb as never before.

    My whole thing is that if you can install something now, be it solar panels or some wind powered generation, then do it, as something is better than nothing. Most of us will just have to cope as best we can with continuing declines in the supply of energy. I knackered myself on Friday stacking two cords of wood for the winter, and hope that it will be enough as wood has gone up almost 100% in the last six years – it isn’t possible to scavenge it all the time.

    I splurged and bought the DVD ‘Witness’ with some of my holiday pay to show the kids what life may gradually become, assuming a gradual, peaceful decline of course.

    AU

    I’ve seen that film before, very kindly given to me by a fellow peaknik, and watched some of it again. Like MOU I find it deeply affecting, kind of like our lives been nothing more than a house of cards.

    On the transport front I read an article about a folding bike – Strida – that has a Kevlar belt instead of a chain, which should make it attractive to business people as there’s no oil to get on clothing. It’s only a one speed suitable for short distances but is compact when folded.

    http://strida.yeahbike.com/faq.html

  12. Hi Mary & thanks. I totally agree on the usefulness of getting whatever Alt-E stuff you can lay your hands on .. even if it’s nothing more complicated than a woodstove and some good hand tools for cutting & chopping wood. The point I try to make to the cornucopian zombies is that we cannot manufacture these things in the necessary quantities to give every household even 5% of the total energy it is already accustomed to using. As individuals, we can certainly make use of Alt-E, but as a society we are clearly fooked.

    It says it all that it would take 500 years of the world’s total output of solar cells just to cover the kind of energy the US alone uses presently. So we’d be adding solar-cell capacity at 0.2% per year, haha, while the overall consumption rises at something like 5% or more per year ~ in effect never catching up, kind of like the same way the US can no longer afford to service its national debt.

  13. So let me see if I get this right: if energy prices are rising oil shale and alternative energy are worthwhile but if they are falling those investments might as well be defaulted junk bonds.

    So as I see it we will have enough energy if prices rise and we will have enough energy if prices fall.

    What exactly is your problem?

    And a little something for your amusement:

    http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2008/12/going-whole-hog-on-alternative-energy.html

    Going Whole Hog On Alternative Energy Will Increase CO2 Emissions

    What will you fuel the AE plants with? 10 cents a KWh coal or 30 cents a KWh solar cells?

    Heh.

    So when will AE make sense? When coal electricity costs 10 cents a KWh and solar voltaics cost 9 cents a KWh. And when that happens you won’t have to force any one to buy them.

  14. I would like to know where M Simon thinks the people here do not understand the pitfalls of Alt Energy.

  15. Roach, M Simon may be living somewhere out in the plains states (yup, the profile on his blog says so) and out there, he probably encounters SUV-driving yahoos on a daily basis. But you’re right ~ this is a whole different crowd here.

    From what I can tell, the issue of the relative costs of these energies (30c/kWh for PV power vs 10c/kWh for coal) is rendered utterly and completely moot by the extingencies facing us, like there being only so much coal (or NG or oil) left that’s easy to get to, and the fact that even if all of it were to be harnessed to making Alt-E setups for every home in the country it still wouldn’t be enough energy to complete the task.

    That sort of thinking completely misses the point that this is an outside context problem. Asking whether it’s more cost-effective to make solar panels from coal power vs some other power is like arguing about deck chair arrangements when the Titanic is sinking from underneath your own feet.

  16. Uncle Yarra .. thanks for the idea about increasing the view stats on R.C.’s profile page. I’ve put one of the botnets onto the task. Oh look, it’s headed toward 1,300 already.

  17. Reading the latest on CFN leads me to suggest that ZK might want to consider a public service post/thread regarding revolution etiquette. Surely we can cut the ropes of the economic sea anchor without cutting ourselves with the knives.

  18. UR, good idea. This sounds like the thing JR would be best at doing. Growing up poor in upstate NY didn’t leave me with warm fuzzy feelings for the folks who are born rich and remain rich their whole lives.

    A complete change of government need not affect too many things. In Europe it is quite common for a grossly incompetent government to be summarily replaced .. and normal life & normal business continue all the while.

    Any yes votes for doing the same here? Are folks ready to migrate from Government 0.6 beta to 0.9 rc1?

  19. BUT!
    He supports democracy in Iraq WITH GRAPHICS!
    Now if there’s anything that can fix the world’s problems it’s a good graphic, the size is important, though, he will help you out.

  20. And he’s from Dallas, too, hence the obsession with things here in the UPL despite his current residence in the UK. Popular guy too .. his stats have been viewed some 27xx times already.

  21. “Mademoiselle Simon has no comments on his blog.”

    yeah, I don’t know what’s funnier. That or the fact that a picture of a guy holding a fish on this blog drew 80 comments.

    Thank you everybody for your participation, I’ll be reading everything you’ve written the last few days and responding (maybe) shortly. Including emails which I have been particularly bad in responding to the last few weeks.

  22. Leave poor Ryan alone! Leave him alone! (boo whoo whoo sounds).

    Not a single friend in this cruel world save for us poor clusterfuckerones, he has only us to give him the needed assurances to get on with his miserable life in dreary old England.

    Hopes crushed, anger personified (or something like that). Boo whoo whoo.

  23. Ryan does not want to be left alone .. and if he did, there would not have been 2+ weeks of nonstop cornucopian postings (with his blog address left at the bottom of each) on CFN, of all the places to post sappy hope-for-alt-E cornucopian stuff.

    When I hear that solar cells and fancy wind turbines are going to “rescue” humanity, my ass begins to itch and the bullshit meter swings into the red. Here’s the secret those people don’t seem to be too familiar with: us human types are literally the cockroaches of the planet. We’ve survived bottlenecks before. Our ancestors made it through the last ice age with little more than bone/flint tools and whatever dead animal skins they clothed themselves in. There is no need to place any faith or hope in [whatever] so that humans can or will survive ~ it’s effectively a done deal already. There’s no guarantee, however, that you’ll be among the survivors.

    Hope & faith is better invested in the survival of one’s own family or household, where you can actually do things that make a difference ~ like growing a really big garden and making sure your kids learn everything they need to know to keep it going and improve it in subsequent years. Or building your own cache of heirloom seeds, from the fruits of your own garden .. and if you keep picking the seeds from the plants that thrived the best, eventually you’ll have your own varieties well-suited to local conditions.

  24. “a picture of a guy holding a fish on this blog drew 80 comments”

    Context. You’re talking about context.

  25. Oh Okay, Nudge, then it’s back to stuffing Ryan Cocker, cornucopian of the month.

    Maybe we should proudly list a CCZT hit parade:

    Ryan Cocker, Mr. December, 2008
    Patrick, Mr. March, 2008 (?)
    Gary 49er, CCZT of the Year, 2006
    Dale, CCZT of the Year, 2007, 2008

    Am I forgetting anyone?

  26. “yeah, I don’t know what’s funnier. That or the fact that a picture of a guy holding a fish on this blog drew 80 comments.” –JR

    Yeah, well, it was a pretty damned good-looking fish, if I do say so myself.

  27. “Leave him alone! (boo whoo whoo sounds).” –DDS

    Doomisockva-

    As Nudge (at least my fast-fading memory thinks it was Nudge) would say, “Boo-effing-hoo!”

    Wazzup with the puppet? You’re just one initial away from DDT. Be careful.

  28. I thought it was a clue he was going to dental school – new skillz for the brave new world.

    Or something.

  29. EE, my parents always wanted me to be a doctor or a dentist. Thankfully, this is as close as I ever got.

  30. Yeah? What is DDS supposed to be? As you can can see it fooled all of us, we never knew it was you.

    There ya go, No Mouth. That’s your wish. Doom is our sockpuppet extraordinaire.

    No, seriously, I will occasionally post as Keith Richards or Bill Gates or something equally ridiculous.

    On CFN, as hard as it might be to believe, I never used a sockpuppet and have never tried one since I was banned. I was always Johnny Rico.

    On The Oil Drum, I never use more than one name at a time. I’ve been banned 6 times by my last count (I’ve lost count). I’ve revealed some of those names to some people. I basically try to stay clear of that, I’m trying to develop a new paper trail. I’m down with everyone that has ever been banned from TOD. We are the original crew who knew what the fuck we were talking about. Dave Mathews is actually second wave (not like he gives a fuck) – a different sort of ban, had nothing to do with the oil ideology or numbers, Dave had some nutbag fascination with Robert Rapier (stalking).

    There is nothing that excites me more than infiltrating TOD and fucking up Leanan’s, Prof Goose’s, and Westexas’ shit.

    The Three Stooges.

    I can do it anytime. At will.

    I just did it in the last 6 months. And they never saw it coming and couldn’t do anything about it. TOD’s hits dropped from 28,000 a day to 15,000 a day. Yeah. That was me. I did that.

    “Suck it, bitches!”

    As Tina Fey would sey.

  31. I got banned from TOD and I didn’t even post anything. Probably something to do with the ASPO thing.

  32. “…my parents always wanted me to be a doctor or a dentist. Thankfully, this is as close as I ever got.”

    And the Good Doctor you are!

    I’ve been meaning to ask you for at least a week about your take on the untapped lava cache that was discovered on the Big Island.

  33. DDS = Dr. Doom’s Sockpuppet. I also occasionally post here as Ralph Nader, Phelps Phan, and wombatwannabe. I fool no one. It must be something about my moronic word choices, dunno.

    Sincerely,
    Einstein’s older (and wiser) brother

  34. “I’ve been meaning to ask you for at least a week about your take on the untapped lava cache that was discovered on the Big Island.”–EE

    Ooh, tell me moron about it. I have been off-grid for over a week, attending the fall AGU meeting in SF and now down in fabulous Hemet, CA visiting with me mum.

  35. That’s Bullshit. I knew Ralph Nader, and Doom is no Nader…oh, wait, nevermind. I was thinking of Patton.

    Wait til we get the Phelps jokes. Rolling Stone was relentless this week. I left the copy on my desk, we’ll have to wait to the 5th.

  36. From now on, when we’re talking military stuff, I’m posting as the great general.

  37. “I got banned from TOD and I didn’t even post anything. Probably something to do with the ASPO thing.”

    I doubt it. They just smelled the fish on you.They are wicked anti-Hmong. Seriously racist. Hardcore Peak-oil/doom philosophy and bigotry mix.

    This is what killed Matt Savinar (and might kill Kunstler) – Matt could never square the fact that he was basically an 80s survivalist trying to mesh with a Progressive Obama Democratic crowd.

    80 percent of JHKs readers are Savinar-types.

    Obama would never have anything to do with Savinar. Nor JHK.

    Savinar is just naive. I’ve run him off TOD and CFN several times. So he can blow me. Shithead has no business online. When he wants to talk to me when I’m in a non-banned state, he can pay for that privilege.

    Otherwise, I have Holmes and Doom to keep me company.

  38. Think you need to clear that with “no mouth,” who interestingly is becoming a regular fixture here.

    And just so everybody knows, I don’t have to work tomorrow, so that pretty much settles it. I’m done. 2:39 is the end of sanity. I’ll try to maintain some semblance of humanity for as long as possible.

  39. Teach him, Bif. I’ll quality monitor. Meanwhile, where the heck is this untapped pool of lava? They probably announced it at the meeting I was attending.

  40. JR, thanks for making my wish come true.
    i meant here and CFN as I have never followed tod. it’s ok. not knowing certain things is often better than knowing, wouldn’t you agree?

  41. civil war?

    Yeah sorry, I was distracted.

    Up late with a sick kid. Luckily no work for me tomorow.

    I ran across the same field as Pickets charge once. Its a mile of hay fields. I was tired about half way across. But if I was scared I maybe could have covered the distance a lot faster.

    Of course after a run like that you’d still have to deal with the 2nd Vermont Brigade.

    That would suck.

    Thats about what I know.

  42. I totally agree. “Certain things.” Definitely Yes. “knowing”? No I disagree.

    I employ one armored division and two spec ops platoons at all times just to let me know what I don’t know. Just kidding, but you have no idea. See what I’m sayin’?

  43. Fuck, Bif has run his cycle-corps bitches out in front of me. This was supposed to be a friendly match. You wanna play hard, fine.

  44. The ‘ol sick kid rigamarole.

    Bif is good , I’m telling ya. Never let your guard down around this guy.

    So fine.. Just let’em sleep.

    Bif will fall asleep with his kid.

    Surround wagon train in morning and scalp-em-all.

    My Dad was the same way. I’ll fucking stab you in the throat. Don’t ever underestimate a Bif clone. Jus sayin.

    You better at least have some marijuana or good Obama references. Or just go fuck off. Are you trying to tell me my boys don’t know what’s up? Or my GIRLS?

    Seriously.

    Am I not gonna approve anything coming outta Holmes or Bif? These fellas… well… if they isn’t sumptin about them.

  45. oh but you are not kidding. i need a drink with dr. karma first. then i will think up something extra special for my main pussy throb – dave.

    ill risk getting my mouth carved out. i don’t have one to lose after all. plus, you guys would rather fuck it than carve it. or fuck it then carve it? or carve it then fuck it?

    running man is the best.
    t minus…

  46. Shiiiiitt!

    I can’t decide whether I should stay or blow.

    Fucking no mouth. Fuck you. Don’t even open your mouth.

  47. No Mouth. In hope you realize I can praise you and crucify you simultaneously. Or as they say (simultaneous). You’re pretty cool. Just learn to swim, preferrably in the Arabian Gulf, sweetie.

    Wait. Are you talkin ta me? I thought so.

    Because it’s a long way.

  48. R, you can go to bed. I’ll take care of this on my own. When you get a call at 5, you know it’s me begging for help. you won’t . Thanks, Brother. Go To Bed. I’m Cool.

  49. “untapped lava?” –St. Bif

    Sorry, sorry!! It’s magma–no wonder I’m not a scientist.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/17/AR2008121703448.html

    Drillers in Hawaii Strike Subterranean Molten Rock by Chance
    By David Brown
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, December 18, 2008; Page A09

    A geothermal power company drilling a mile and a half deep on one of the Hawaiian Islands has for the first time encountered an undisturbed chamber of magma, or molten rock, scientists reported this week.

    Before the discovery, which was made in 2005, the only access to magma had been on Earth’s surface — in the form of lava from volcanoes.

    The 2,000-degree Fahrenheit material in the chamber is undergoing a complicated transformation that may give geologists the first real-time look at how the silicate-rich rock of continents is formed.

    “They probably announced it at the meeting I was attending.” –Dr. Doom

    Yep, Doom. You musta slept through that one! ; ^ 0 Or maybe you’ve just become inured to the term “drilling” from its overuse here at ZK and you tune out. Could this be a Black Swan?

    http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2448/accidental-magma-find-wows-scientists

    Rock solid

    The magma stumbled upon was a light-coloured volcanic dacite, never before found on the Big Island of Hawaii and chemically distinct from the basalt lava and rock typically observed, Teplow said.

    It has been thought that dacite can be formed from basalt through a natural crystallisation and distillation process, and that dacite in turn can harden into rocks similar to those comprising the granite core of Earth’s continents.

    The shock magma find, then, means scientists may be directly observing what happened during continental formation. “This may be the first time this process of the generation of granite has actually been observed taking place in nature,” Teplow said.

  50. Cool, good basic science, but can we get some geothermal power out of it?

    BTW, my longtime friend from graduate school runs that drilling project.

  51. Doom, tell us more about the phase of granite creation in which the stuff is infused with radioactivity. I always thought that was the most karmically delightful aspect of payback for all those yuppie f*cktards who insisted on having polished granite slabbery (the table form of “shrubbery”) all over the house.

  52. Uncle yarra .. it’s working!!1 Remember how I put a box or two onto reloading poor Ryan Crocker’s stats page automatically? Just went back to check his blog and found the following new post:

    Wednesday, December 24, 2008
    More About This Site

    I have to share some good news with all my loyal fans — this blog has experienced its first major breakthrough on the long, hard road of building web traffic! Two days ago I noticed a huge spike in the number of new visitors to the blog, so I assume someone out there in the blogosphere has jumped onboard the ‘Lifeboat’ and linked to this site. At least that’s what I’m telling myself. Anyway I was excited, so it was with great enthusiasm that I decided to give all of my new readers some more info. about this site. Enjoy! :)

    This site is intended to empower individuals and communities to take bold action in response to our worsening ecological predicament. Human population and consumption are rapidly outstripping the carrying capacity of the planet. The signs are all around us – every ecological indicator shows that human activity is putting enormous stress on the biosphere.

    These are the most pressing ethical questions of our time, and the only answers that matter are actions. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for…. what will we do now?

    Posted by Ryan Crocker
    at 4:57 PM
    0 comments

    —-
    Bwahahahahahahahaha .. “massive increase in readership” .. guess he’s not reading the numbers closely enough to tell which page is gathering all the views.

    This is too funny. I need to point more machines to that site and tell them to auto-refresh the page. 3,500 views and counting!!!

  53. Now, now, Nudge, he’ll eventually come over here to read comments and may find out what you’re doing. I’m not ratting on you, and I doubt anyone else here will, but we don’t want him in tears once he learns the truth, do we?

    Meanwhile, please try my eggnogg receipe, or blend up a cheeseburger.

  54. Nudge, the U, Th and radioactive daughters are all large ions that don’t fit well into common rock forming minerals. Therefore, they tend to concentrate in the molten liquid residues when these common minerals crystallize from the melt. Those residual liquids end up in the more granitic rocks, especialy in pegmatites and hydrothermal veins. There is the potential for radon daughter build up from these rocks in enclosures. One solution: add ventilation, like an exhaust fan or simply open a window. That’s what U,Th ore miners do, and folks with basements in granite rock country (radon gas is heavier than air).

    It’s just stupid to remove the countertop rock unless it’s very radioactive. If so, why not get the granite provider to take it back?

  55. Nudge, seriously, have you no Christmas(or Hanukah or Kwanza) spirit? Why does it give you such pleasure to be so mean to someone who is doing their best to deal with peak oil or whatever, in the best way they know how? It’s not possible to know if things will turn out the way he hopes or believes but, guess what sister, there is no guarantee that your dystopian view of the future will come to pass either. Lighten up, or at the very least cut the guy a break.

  56. Tipping

    I think Ryan is actually closer to basic long emergancy POV then he wants to admit.

    It has a lot to do with wanting to hang on to the old ways of comericalism. Must have more stuff to feel like a real American. He is stuck on the past and desperatly wants everything to be fine.

    And it can be fine. People like Ryan need to come to grips with the fact that the past is the past and the future is not going to happen the way he wants it to.

    Dale is pretty much the same way.

  57. I have had about 4 shots of vodka and something which may or may not ryme with my nickname. Thus I blame Bill gates for any misspelled words.

    off to incress the number of shots

    Merry Holidays

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